Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums  

Go Back   Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums > The Guildhouse > Chatterbox > Singapore Politics

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23-03-2015, 10:20 PM   #61
Aris
Arofanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smalllfish View Post
sorry i disagree, have you worked in a management team and planned for a company/institute?

no single person can do everything or be good in everything, he(LKY) is the man who had a grand vision and gathered a group of man together and tied their efforts together to bring us to where we are today. He setup a system to continually generate effective leaders after him to continue to bring the country forward. there can be many good lieutenants and generals, but there are only a few great commanders that can put them together to win a war

to the many people who are complaining and spiteful of the highly paid ministers, COE, CPF, foreign and many other policies made by our government. they are not the best policies, but they have their purpose. if you think deeper, you might understand its rationale.

if you cant, SORRY, you are either too self centered or you lack foresight. try living abroad for a few years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thee_boss View Post
Love ur comment bro. Up u 4 points.
There are some things I do agree but your passing of judgment on members and Singaporeans in general does not make you a better person than others. Some of us have lived abroad for years in 1st and 3rd world nations but we learn to be more humble and accept the fact that not every one shares the same opinions. Criticising others as too self centred or lacking in foresight and advising them to live abroad shows your lack of EQ, sad to say.
Aris is offline  
Old 23-03-2015, 10:26 PM   #62
jwhtan
Barney

 
jwhtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,118
Default

I hope I make this clear once and for all.

You can have ur opinions, give someone else his space for his opinion. You can disagree but no character assasination and personal attacks.

I have nothing good to say abt LKY. I keep quiet. But u r free to express ur love and respect for him.
jwhtan is offline  
Old 23-03-2015, 10:39 PM   #63
smalllfish
Dragon
 
smalllfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,418
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aris View Post
There are some things I do agree but your passing of judgment on members and Singaporeans in general does not make you a better person than others. Some of us have lived abroad for years in 1st and 3rd world nations but we learn to be more humble and accept the fact that not every one shares the same opinions. Criticising others as too self centred or lacking in foresight and advising them to live abroad shows your lack of EQ, sad to say.
thank you for your kind comments, i indeed have zero EQ and also have zero interest in your compliments.

my comments are not for anyone in particular, unless he/she view himself as i have described, i feel the grief of the values of Singaporeans changing over my 30 years living here - my own friends, the kids of the next generation and many others in taking for granted and not appreciating / contented with what we are borned into. I see people spitting at our government and condemning Mr Lee (junior and senior) in every little obstacle or failure they experience in life. it seems to them that having a job, having food on the table, not worrying about being invaded are all a given... instead people complain about how governments have policies to "suck' money, how the government allow foreign workers in, to do jobs no one wants to do..... how $200 and then $400 GST vouchers are always so little...never enough...

i personally believe that living alone aboard broaden ones views, independence and ultimately self reflection. prehaps i m wrong, but this is my humble opinion

Last edited by smalllfish; 23-03-2015 at 10:44 PM.
smalllfish is offline  
Old 23-03-2015, 10:45 PM   #64
HeiYuEr

Garfield
 
HeiYuEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,076
Default

all pls cool down leh.

everyone got their own opinion lah....just no personal attack pls, cos it don't prove anything at all online.

for once.....all pls cool down and go www.cpf.gov.sg login ur acct, look at your statement and feel rich for now....go go....I also go too
__________________
AF Motorworkz
66, Kaki Bukit Ave 6,
ARK@KB, Singapore 417895
Tel - 6384 9931
Fax - 6384 9932
Mobile - 9082 8282
24hrs Towing Service - 8777 1161
HeiYuEr is offline  
Old 23-03-2015, 11:00 PM   #65
stargazer
Dragon
 
stargazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 877
Default

My humble opinion is most of us, or can I say all of us, never lived through those tumultuous period. Those times you really need strong leaders who can make hard decisions, whether popular or not. Right or not. But fact is that to where SG has progressed today, can I say more right decisions have been made?

LKY and the Old Guards at that time were already highly educated. They were already consider elites of that era. Lee himself could have practice Law in UK. Why bother to come back to SG to setup political party? And when independence and the road ahead was so tough, they could have just quit and go abroad right? Why stay? How many of us when meet unhappy job or challenges quit and look for another one?

Aiyo...give LKY and his hero team the respect they deserve lor.
stargazer is offline  
Old 23-03-2015, 11:07 PM   #66
leong26
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A sabahan through his own words own writing with this article, as a mourning to the late Lee Kuan Yew.

I would like to share it over here .
I'm Sorry . Article is In full Chinese .

李光耀走了,适逢新加坡国庆50周年。50年前,马来西亚国会修改宪法将新加坡脱离出去(不是独立),注定 了新加坡的不凡命运,也注定了马来西亚联邦迥然不同的格局,让本来血缘相系的两地,从此开展出南辕北辙的未 来。

网络上不乏对李光耀的评论,他独裁专制、他打压异己、他崇洋媚外、他精英主义等等是事实,尽管如此,他与精 英幕僚将新加坡打造成现代化的先进城邦,骄人的GDP成绩和今天新加坡的繁荣先进,赢得了人们的口碑,也是 事实。尤其是对于马来西亚人(特别是华人)来说,更是有着仰慕追崇的情怀,单单是新币兑换马币的汇率,就是 血淋淋的例子。

我没有打算要讨论他的功过是非,作为一名沙巴人,这一个看似遥远的富裕之邦,其实离我们并不远,实际上历史 发展到今天,我们不能够抹去那段曾经共结连理的历史,更要去反思它,才能够从此展望沙巴和马来 西亚的将来。

许多沙巴人都爱说,幸好新加坡离开得早,或是偏爱说成幸好李光耀聪明(所以才没有留在马来西亚这个烂国度) ,不然新加坡不会有今天(的经济成就),或多或少,我们羡慕甚至妒忌这个国家,甚至乎有种「看到自己」的想 象,想象着如果沙巴是独立国家(那我们肯定比新加坡更好)。

如下图显示,新加坡并不是自愿独立的,而是基于60年代的种族冲突,新加坡人民行动党与马来亚的执政党巫统 有着严重的意见分歧(李光耀强调不分种族的马来西亚人的马来西亚;而巫统领袖则认为这是马来人的马来西亚) ,在这样的情境下,巫统认为李光耀和其人民行动党是马来西亚的威胁,因而将其踢出联邦。其实当时不少文献也 指出,当时的马来亚不认为新加坡可以自力更生,希望能够制造危机,假以时日给马来西亚机会吞并新加坡。新加 坡被宣布踢出联邦那一刻,李光耀在电视演讲时表示难过和痛苦,并痛批马来西亚将会成为种族主义之邦(果然应 验了)。

其实,李光耀当年就是强烈主张要新马合并,并与沙巴和砂拉越共组一个马来西亚联邦。许多沙巴人都怪马来亚骗 了沙巴,但是这笔账不应仅怪马来亚,因为新加坡也有份,李光耀和第一任沙巴首席部长唐纳史提芬关系匪浅,据 说是他极力游说才说服当时的沙砂加盟。李光耀在回忆录《观天下》里也谈及这段历史,他主张合并,并建构一个 多元种族、公平平等的国家,这是他一直坚信的理念(就是因为被指反对土著权益反对马来特权,而 被赶走)。

秉着这份理念,李光耀带领人民行动党在1964年竞选马来亚国会选举(赢得Bangsar一个席位),加剧 了人民行动党和巫统联盟之间的矛盾。他心里是想要打垮巫统联盟,成立马来西亚的联邦政府。他的远大目标在于 马来西亚,这就是为什么他谈到新马分家,就感到痛楚。

被赶走那一刻,他写下对沙巴和砂拉越的留言(如图中),自此后,他也没有再高调谈起沙巴砂拉越,有人说他愧 对我们,也有人骂他过桥抽板。这时,我更好奇当时在捍卫多元价值,反对巫统种族主义的李光耀和新加坡,沙巴 和砂拉越是以怎么样的心态存在?

我翻阅历史性1965年8月9日当时任首相东姑阿都拉曼提呈马新分家修改宪法的国会记录,联盟(国阵前身) 攻击新加坡执政的人民行动党”共产”,想要否决马来主权等等,尽管人民行动党的议员蒂凡那(民主行动党第一 任主席)极力捍卫马来西亚精神和多元价值观,没有人站起来挺身捍卫他,更没有沙巴的议员起来支持这份精神, 最终国会进行投票全数通过,新加坡就此走向不同的命运。

这些都是记载的历史。当然没有人想过,李光耀的野心可能改变马来西亚命运,也没有人意料到,今天的沙巴砂拉 越会沦落到如此贫困的地步。对于李光耀和新加坡的命运,或许马后炮的发现,从新加坡离开那一刹那,这个联邦 就已经破产。很多人都说,当时沙巴砂拉越自己顾自己,没有闲暇理会新加坡。

正当新加坡捍卫多元价值(或许是李光耀的野心),但是沙砂却没有站出来支持它,或许就这样注定了未来被吃掉 的命运。(这让我想起马丁尼莫拉那首诗 — “当他们要追杀我,再也没有人为我说话了”)

当然,这些已经是过往云烟了。新加坡被赶出来,李光耀的不甘,满腔怨恨和痛楚让它势必要超越马来西亚,这种 情怀充分体现在一代新加坡人的记忆中。尽管最终新加坡也有自己的问题,与马来西亚那样没有有效的民主机制, 那已经是后话了。

暮然回首,历史没有如果,随着李光耀的离开,象征着一个时代的结束。马来西亚和新加坡,都会自己的问题和挑 战要面对。但是历史一直都在,借着此文,悼念已故李光耀。

作为沙巴人,以新加坡看沙巴,或许你以为沙巴也应该像新加坡那样自己当家做主最好(那或许没错),何况我们 拥有更为优越的条件(如天然资源),但是持平而论,我们并没有当时新加坡的条件,我们或许有资源,但我们没 有廉洁的领袖,我们没有高效能的行政能力,硬生生将新加坡看成沙巴,那是情绪,并不是理性。

李光耀和人民行动党当时在马来西亚联邦里力争建立公平平等的体制,反对种族主义,或许当年沙巴砂拉越没有携 手参与,但是未来的马来西亚要实践公平和平等,必须由我们这一代沙巴和砂拉越人一起来极力争取,以恢复一个 真正的联邦。
 
Old 23-03-2015, 11:11 PM   #67
canopy
Dragon
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,451
Default

We will not witness another Mr Lee at least for a long time to come. He had done what he was supposed to do. Full respect for him for bring Singapore to the current developed countries in less than 50 years. Those who heard of asia four little dragons should know what I mean. Even I went to Shanghai in China recently, the local who ate at the next tables can even spell up his name and give a thumb up of him. Hope you will be reborn as a Singaporean soon....
canopy is offline  
Old 23-03-2015, 11:32 PM   #68
leong26
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It was very heartened to see our Malays , Indian bros / sis to shed a tears or two for this man , not just Singaporeans mind you , but bros / sis from Malaysian as well .

Today frankly speaking , I myself at many points , can't really control and hold back my tears .. a very emotional day for me .. quite sad a day for me emotionally really .
This man really put shine on our face . It was just hard for me to hold back tears .

Hate him or love him Nevermind . He's gone already . No more flesh left of him no more .
He die here in this land Singapore . Like many before him , Dust n bones is all it was all left behind .
 
Old 24-03-2015, 12:35 AM   #69
dragon888
Arofanatic
 
dragon888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazer View Post
My humble opinion is most of us, or can I say all of us, never lived through those tumultuous period. Those times you really need strong leaders who can make hard decisions, whether popular or not. Right or not. But fact is that to where SG has progressed today, can I say more right decisions have been made?

LKY and the Old Guards at that time were already highly educated. They were already consider elites of that era. Lee himself could have practice Law in UK. Why bother to come back to SG to setup political party? And when independence and the road ahead was so tough, they could have just quit and go abroad right? Why stay? How many of us when meet unhappy job or challenges quit and look for another one?

Aiyo...give LKY and his hero team the respect they deserve lor.
10 Men, 10 Years: A Decade of Nation-Building
http://www.nas.gov.sg/archivesonline...0-men-10-years


Edmund W. Barker 1920 - 2001 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_W._Barker

S Rajaratnam 1915 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Rajaratnam

Lim Kim San 1916 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Kim_San

Goh Keng Swee - 1918 - 2010 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goh_Keng_Swee

Yong Nyuk Lin 1918 - 2012 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yong_Nyuk_Lin

Toh Chin Chye 1921 - 2012 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toh_Chin_Chye

Lee Kuan Yew 1923 - 2015 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew

Jek Yeun Thong 1930 - http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/infoped...009-08-30.html

Ong Pang Boon 1929 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ong_Pang_Boon

Othman Wok 1924 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othman_Wok
dragon888 is offline  
Old 24-03-2015, 08:42 AM   #70
Guppies Onli
Dragon
 
Guppies Onli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AroHong View Post
7 days - Are all local Radio n TV channels going to rerun all this stuff of pre recorded videos etc?
Alamak today still the same no usual program. Those elderly at home will be bored, radio also nothing to listen. Hopefully not till Sun.
Guppies Onli is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +9. The time now is 02:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2000-2008 Arofanatics.com (Since 30th August 2000)