anti-chlorine,chloramine

[DragonFireSG]

One thing worth noting is that ammonia is a chemical secreted in large quantities by fish, and is something our biological filters are specialized in removing. I believe the quantity generated by the dechlorination process is miniscule compared to that excreted by hungry fish.

In any case, I feed my dechlorinated water into the pump chamber preceding the shower and let the BB in the shower deal with the ammonia.

[ThomasLim]

Wow... Thks bro Shermie and DragonFireSG. Good info...

[LauLanChu]

Shermie,
Yes I agree to what you say, different fish have different tolerance to ammonia. And over crowding of course is out of question that will definitely be bad even with a good filtration running.

Going back to what we discuss about WC that cause immediate sudden death to healthy fish which should be continue living without the WC and ammonia spike is the cause of the death because of certain poor AC used is kind of debatable. DragonFireSG mentioned the ammonia produced by the fish alone is much more than the ammonia spike produced by the breaking down of chloromine. Not forgetting beside people keeping fish with just air stone some also treat the sick fish in hospital tank without filter and the fish still alive with the ammonia and medication stressing the fish, and seller bag and transport sardine packed fishes what is the ammonia spike in the bag about at what level? I think ammonia spike would cause death in at least days, but not minutes or hours.

Some question on the toxic Ammonia that fish keeper are fearful of. We know that Ammonia (NH3) exists in gaseous form at room temp, same as oxygen and CO2. How does it gets in and out of the water are through gaseous exchange on water surface. So if we do a lot of bubbling or create falling or moving water ammonia should be able to escape from the water and cause less harm to the fishes (providing ammonia stays at NH3, and not NH4+, when pH > 7), right? I think that could be the reason why tank setup without a filtration with good water movement fish can still survive (providing no overcrowding of course).

[shermie]

Originally Posted by LauLanChu

Going back to what we discuss about WC that cause immediate sudden death to healthy fish which should be continue living without the WC and ammonia spike is the cause of the death because of certain poor AC used is kind of debatable. DragonFireSG mentioned the ammonia produced by the fish alone is much more than the ammonia spike produced by the breaking down of chloromine. Not forgetting beside people keeping fish with just air stone some also treat the sick fish in hospital tank without filter and the fish still alive with the ammonia and medication stressing the fish, and seller bag and transport sardine packed fishes what is the ammonia spike in the bag about at what level? I think ammonia spike would cause death in at least days, but not minutes or hours.

i think i already explained previously how ammonia may not be that big of an issue in the tanks with no filters.. did u miss out that part? as for transporting that is precisely why we always say no feeding before transporting.. to prevent ammonia spikes. for longer durations, most professionals will add amquel or a similar ammonia binding reagent. normally ammonia spike wont kill instantly, there will be plenty of telltale signs before it, most notably fish gasping at the surface.. red blotches.. fading in colouration etcetc.. but if u already had bad water parameters to begin with that amount more of ammonia could just tip the scales.

for most of us, we wont lose fish instantly, but rather notice our fish breathing a lot heavier than normal. to a ray keeper that's enough to make one panic lol. if one has good filtration then dmg should be minimal although why would we want to place our fish under undue stress? if one doesnt have good filtration, then it becomes a way more serious issue even if it doesnt kill instantly.

Originally Posted by LauLanChu

Some question on the toxic Ammonia that fish keeper are fearful of. We know that Ammonia (NH3) exists in gaseous form at room temp, same as oxygen and CO2. How does it gets in and out of the water are through gaseous exchange on water surface. So if we do a lot of bubbling or create falling or moving water ammonia should be able to escape from the water and cause less harm to the fishes (providing ammonia stays at NH3, and not NH4+, when pH > 7), right? I think that could be the reason why tank setup without a filtration with good water movement fish can still survive (providing no overcrowding of course).

dont forget majority of the ammonia in our tank water is due to liquid and solid waste not through gaseous exchange. and while ammonia does return to gaseous state given enough pummeling and saturation, a simple airstone will not suffice. we're talking about strong shaking and pummeling force, usually from height, eg bakki showers. google on that and u'll see why the simple bubbling of an airstone would not work.

[Tay]

Originally Posted by shermie

[B]
AFAIK most products that "rid" ammonia works on the same principal as amquel.

Another extract taken from seachem forums :

Bro if I am not wrong amquel uses ClorAm-X formula so the extract shld not be fr seachem... I am right?

[Tay]

I believed Bro Shermie had given us v detailed info on what is AC & wat AC does. I had printed out all those info Bro Shermie showed many months back & read over again many times.

In fish keeping, there will always be diff gp of pple believing in diff theories. eg, some ang moh oversea state that doing wc is bullshit & a mktg gimmick, some think other wise. But there r not comparison in what fishes they r keeping........etc.

Stating a real eg, my frd ray farm in LIM CHU KANG uses tap water directly without using AC & rays r doing ok. So can we conclude that rays no need AC? If one does conclude to be so, then too bad, u r putting lots of rays in danger. The reason y the rays there r doing ok becos the lvl of cholrine there is super low, 0.000 something % only. This was the test result send by a farm there. Don ask me y that is so, ask the garment. Maybe the area is agriculture land. But we cannot be assured that PUB will not increase the amt of chlorine anytime, so pls don take this article as a guarantee.

As I had mentioned earlier, there r always many diff reasons behind many things& don just take the surface & give conclusion, u will put lots of fishes in danger.

I strongly believe that we r here to provide our sincere advise & share our knowledge like bro Shermie, but I am sure some will not be convinced due to diff believes like thinking that it maybe a mktg gicmmick, hv hidden agenda, wan make $, etc. NO worries, if wat u r doing now wks, just cont to do it & need not take the discussion into consideration at all. For those that always hv issues, read with an open mind & try the advises given when ready. I had met pple whom r v sturbborn & don believe in wat I recommended cos their only thinkg is I wan make $$ fr them. Such pple, we respect & just move away end story. Pple willing to learn, I willing to share. Keep it simple everyone happy.

Oh 1 last thing, pls don ask us to show how ammonia was get rid using chemical so to convince & prove to everyone. I myself had threw this qn to the scientist, the ans is:
The formula is patented and kept within the company. If u wan to know, pls buy over the company. And lastly, he said, even if I tell u, do u think u can understand?

So wat i did with bro shalabin stated in my AC thread, test the ammonia tainted water after every dose of ac. U will get the ans. BTW pls do properly 2 sets with same standard using 2 ac for comparison.

[ThomasLim]

Originally Posted by Tay

I believed Bro Shermie had given us v detailed info on what is AC & wat AC does. I had printed out all those info Bro Shermie showed many months back & read over again many times.

In fish keeping, there will always be diff gp of pple believing in diff theories. eg, some ang moh oversea state that doing wc is bullshit & a mktg gimmick, some think other wise. But there r not comparison in what fishes they r keeping........etc.

Stating a real eg, my frd ray farm in LIM CHU KANG uses tap water directly without using AC & rays r doing ok. So can we conclude that rays no need AC? If one does conclude to be so, then too bad, u r putting lots of rays in danger. The reason y the rays there r doing ok becos the lvl of cholrine there is super low, 0.000 something % only. This was the test result send by a farm there. Don ask me y that is so, ask the garment. Maybe the area is agriculture land. But we cannot be assured that PUB will not increase the amt of chlorine anytime, so pls don take this article as a guarantee.

As I had mentioned earlier, there r always many diff reasons behind many things& don just take the surface & give conclusion, u will put lots of fishes in danger.

I strongly believe that we r here to provide our sincere advise & share our knowledge like bro Shermie, but I am sure some will not be convinced due to diff believes like thinking that it maybe a mktg gicmmick, hv hidden agenda, wan make $, etc. NO worries, if wat u r doing now wks, just cont to do it & need not take the discussion into consideration at all. For those that always hv issues, read with an open mind & try the advises given when ready. I had met pple whom r v sturbborn & don believe in wat I recommended cos their only thinkg is I wan make $$ fr them. Such pple, we respect & just move away end story. Pple willing to learn, I willing to share. Keep it simple everyone happy.

Bro Tay, thanks for this great info. Thumb up!

[Tay]

Originally Posted by shermie

As for residue ac in the tank adding up over time due to excess remaining after wc or evaporation.... I did have such concerns and wrote to seachem regarding this issue. Their reply was prime for instance would remain stable for eg 24 to 48 hours ( can't remember the exact time so don't quote me on this ) then be inert and the bonded ammonia would once again be released if your biological filtration did not concert it by then. And it would take a LOT higher than x2 x3 x4 concentration of AC in water to pose a health hazard to fish. As for ast I have yet to ask them about this topic, but as I overdose 2 x the recommended amount and do wc ever 2 days, u can imagine how much excess there would be in the water. And my rays are fine. I'm not recommending nyone to do the same, just sharing my own experience. One more thing to add.... water that has ast added tastes different. I dunno how to describe it but u'll know if u try

Hi Bro, I was reading everything again & again so to help me understand more & excel further. OK, last time in my farm, I have few cement ponds for water storage abt 15 tons each. I wld add tap water & dose seachem safe, leave it there for few days b4 i do wc for my rays pond. Always after wc my rays appetite will drop but recover after few days but in the long run like getting worst esp after wc. So, if based on wat is mentioned above, the bonded ammonia actually became toxic after I left the water in the pond for few days without biological filtration?

So am I right to say I am so stupid to pump in ammonia toxic water to my rays? Last time b4 AST was imported, I didnt read so much abt AC just trusted wat was strongly recommended in AF. So wat I did last time was completely wrong right? I was thinkg aging the water for few days will be even better.

Now doing the same thing with AST no issue. so I want to clarify & learn wats the cos.......

[shermie]

Originally Posted by Tay

Hi Bro, I was reading everything again & again so to help me understand more & excel further. OK, last time in my farm, I have few cement ponds for water storage abt 15 tons each. I wld add tap water & dose seachem safe, leave it there for few days b4 i do wc for my rays pond. Always after wc my rays appetite will drop but recover after few days but in the long run like getting worst esp after wc. So, if based on wat is mentioned above, the bonded ammonia actually became toxic after I left the water in the pond for few days without biological filtration?

So am I right to say I am so stupid to pump in ammonia toxic water to my rays? Last time b4 AST was imported, I didnt read so much abt AC just trusted wat was strongly recommended in AF. So wat I did last time was completely wrong right? I was thinkg aging the water for few days will be even better.

Now doing the same thing with AST no issue. so I want to clarify & learn wats the cos.......

Based on seachem info yea after a few days the ammonia would have been released again... so if u didn't have any nitrification in your holding tank u'll have been pumping water with free ammonia into your ray ponds.

Ast I can't find any info on how long it lasts so no idea.

[Tay]

Originally Posted by shermie

Based on seachem info yea after a few days the ammonia would have been released again... so if u didn't have any nitrification in your holding tank u'll have been pumping water with free ammonia into your ray ponds.

Ast I can't find any info on how long it lasts so no idea.

Oh no wonder last time my rays always hv issue after wc. AST as far as I kn it dont bind the ammonia, as discussed it removed/get rid, think tats y now even i left the water in my storage pond for 1, 2 wks also no issue. I even do 90% wc also ok. Now i kn wat went wrong last time.