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Old 03-10-2014, 11:48 PM   #61
azon
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Originally Posted by Aro1 View Post
Wild caught vs captive bred... Siao Liao, only complicates things.
If wc BD doesn't fit these, then sell as p13 loh.
P13 consist of PDR, BDLeo and Black Diamond..

Be it captive bred or wild caught if wanna fit in that criteria than all must fit in to be a BD rite??

Where did the first BD come from?? also wild caught right??

Nowadays any P13 with some spottings on the edge of the disc will be sold as lower grade BD by exporters..
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:56 PM   #62
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That also explains why there are so many BDs, anyhow bdleo also sell as bd. To fit that criteria, there will be lesser BDs, and most of these p13 with rims or bdleos will be eliminated.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:06 AM   #63
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Haiz, talk so much, someone already doing BD Identification Poster liao. Steady.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:32 AM   #64
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My bdleo belly also have pattern leh so how huh??
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:15 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aro1 View Post
Wild caught vs captive bred... Siao Liao, only complicates things.
If wc BD doesn't fit these, then sell as p13 loh.
So again , are u saying wild caught parent produced pups sell as P13s , whilst captive bred parent produced pups sell as "BD" ?.

What about if 1 of each parent's produced offspring ?

This year's PSLE question , need teacher to help answer

Breeders also catch no ball.

Like I said ," BD " is not a brand, just a term with no clear definition , hence why still use it? Unless it's definition is agreed upon by some organisation, fish committee etc..

You put all the best characteristics of good p13 into 1 fish and call it "BD" , then nobody can find this Gem anymore or maybe very very few.

I would agree that this so called "BD" does has such unique characteristics or special feature at most time... But not that it MUST have ALL these in that 1 fish.

Hopefully we can educate hobbyist to accept certain standard of the Ray to meet certain mark rather than misleading them into searching for the best of the best fish which either is very expensive (if have) or hardly can be found.


Simon

Last edited by Nomis; 04-10-2014 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:33 AM   #66
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I think the "important message" to get across all ray keepers community in this disscussion is to go back to basics and
explain to new ray keepers how & what those acronym/nicknames/scientific classification like P13, PDR ,Leo,BDleo and BD came about .

To me PDR,Leo,BDleo , BD still fall into the categories of P13 ( Potamotrygon leopoldi ).
If the black ray is a Leo(P13) cross with henlei(P12) but with Paddle/Flag Tail . This is abit tricky .... can be called as SP to some .


PDR = Polka Dot rays (This nick was started with mostly asian about more then a decade ago which is the so called 321 spotting ) Correct me if i'm wrong .
Leo = short form of Leopoldi ( Mostly use by western countries to describe a P13 )
BDleo = ( Black Diamond Cross with Leopoldi ) Also P13 x P13 lah
BD = Black Diamond ( Higher grade of P13 , Potamotrygon leopoldi )

So in short ( My own terms )
PDR/Leo (Standard 321 spotting ) = Lower grade of P13 ( Something like A Grade )
BDLeo =( BD crossbreed with PDR/Leo which is Medium Grade AA )
BD = Black Diamond ( AAA Grade Leo/P13 )

After saying so much of course there will be more debate like so how ? High Grade BDleo sell as BD or Low Grade BD sell as BDleo . (No ending )
And even explaining all these terms , ppl will still question BD/pdr/leo itself also got low/medium/high grade .how ?
( To me this is individual own taste bench marks)


Simon Terming of P13 is ok and right to me .(But may need some time for hobbyist to get used to the term, which i can see most ppl selling is slowly calling P13 also )
However to my standard his quite humble to say average P13 .To me is like a AA or AA+ P13 or P.Leopoldi ....haha


Aro1 talking about the pricing is not wrong too ....$600 pdr or normal leo to $6K BD .
Newbie will also confuse start asking friends/LFS etc .... If kena the wrong advisor,no offence ( eg..... BD must be jet black , some young BD can be greyish black )

So Newbie/rookies must do their homework first and not buy already and start questioning/asking about the ray identification and genuinity. ( *This type of issue will sometimes breaks the friendship among hobbyist . HP will ring non-stop if comment or say truthly or wrongly .


Westerner name/term their higher grade fish "Royal" as in like Royal Galaxy , Royal Marble Motoro , Royal Clownknife fish etc .....

We name them as P13 A/AA/ or AAA grade can boh ?
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:50 PM   #67
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Royal P13! Haha!
Thks for ur long comments. Effort!
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Old 10-10-2014, 04:51 AM   #68
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frankly if anyone saw those WC BDs they will think its a BDleo or even some SPs as their spots are yellowish in colour

for P13 no matter you cross PDR with BDleo or cross BDleo with BD or even BD with PDR the base colour still black and the spot is white because they belong to same family that explains the classification as P13 for all 3 types =)

But if you outcross any of the P13 to others like say P12 or pearl etc, the base colour will run off thus classification of a P13 cross no matter BD or PDR should be classified under the parents P numbers

Say dad is P13 and mum P12 so just put as P13P12

But for P13 if we wish to classify if its a PDR,BDLEO OR BD maybe i can humbly suggest we classifiy as below:

PDR P13
BDLEO P13A
BD P13AA

just my 0.00001 cents view as a hobbyist
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:03 PM   #69
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To me not important as long as you like it
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Old 20-10-2014, 06:13 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aro1 View Post
U people are the expert, breed so many BDs still don't want to define what is BD. Go back to the old definition lah;
Rim spots, 3 layers of spots. paddle tail, diamond eyes, underbelly spotting, black base and white spots are distinctive.
Just to understand, if pups form BDLeo parents, showed all the BD criteria above, can be classified as BD?
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