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Old 11-01-2016, 07:00 PM   #11
DragonFireSG
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Originally Posted by DragonFireSG View Post
One more thing to add. You should probably have a Waterco MC50 installed between the pumps and the shower to take out the ultra fines (50-200 micron). This can be obtained locally or from Malaysia. Idea situation would be one unit per pump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c35JcGLOpUA
Wrong. They have a Singapore office too! I will be checking with them about the MC50 soon (MC16 here) as I'm thinking of putting one in my clean water chamber on my old Tsurumi to see if I can get any more crap out of the water.
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:12 PM   #12
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Btw It looks like if you sacrifice 45cm on the narrow side of the pond for a filter chamber, you can put in an ultrasieve without trouble. Ideally, this should be on the side nearer the walkway side so maintenance is easy. I did a quick drawing. Will link it up soon.
Maintenance for this sort of system is not back breaking It involves flushing the crap out of the sieve every weekend or so. You should never have to clean the other chambers very much.

This will mean sacrificing 25% of the pond to the mechanical filter though.
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:38 PM   #13
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Top half is side profile of the filter chamber. You can stop water from entering the filter by using a long standpipe to stop up the drain entrance on the bottom.
You will of course need to remove the bags of oyster shell first. They are generally fairly light though, and I doubt you will need to stop up the drain very often.

This chamber will have one or two ceramic airstones on the bottom to force water through the sacks of oyster shell to keep the shells relatively free of sediment. This is the dirty water chamber after all.

Maintenance involves shaking the sacks of oyster shell up to free loose debris. This debris will be caught by the sieve and will not get into the pond.
How often you do this will be determined by running conditions. Generally speaking the air will keep the shells quite free of debris.

The sieve catches debris up to 300 micron (200 if you upgrade the wedge wire - this means more regular maintenance tho!)

The debris is flushed to the bottom of the wedge wire, and collects there for removal. There are numerous videos out there detailing how cleaning is done.

The bottom of the sieve will have 3" holes drilled out as this is a submersible pump application. The water will flow out into the surrounding chamber, where it will be sucked out by the pair of submersible pumps.

The pumps will be connected to a Waterco MC16 (50 in the US) for fines removal. The waterco does a good job of removing material down to 50 microns. Beyond this will be a distribution manifold that feeds water to the shower, and the tangential returns.

The shower will not need any maintenance with this design. The sieve will need regular cleaning, probably not taking more than 10m a weekend. You will get a thick sludge which will make most excellent fertilizer for your garden. The waterco needs to be purged only when you see the fines start to build up inside the clear enclosure. This should be quite easy to do. I personally have no experience with that unit, though I am planning on getting some soon
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Old 12-01-2016, 10:04 PM   #14
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wow wow wow

Super impressive drawing !!! Thank you so much. I have sent an email to Zac for the Zakki system, now pending his reply. I still preferred above ground system.

I went to SeaView today to check out the canister type filter and spoke to one of the SV guy. Comparing the Aqua Ultima II type (without foam or mat) vs Laguna (which definitely will clog because of form and mat).
To my surprise he told me there is no need to follow the "setup in the instruction" on the Laguna system.

His recommendation is go for spec that is 3 x the volume of pond. So for my 5500 liters set up he said ideally should go with 16500 liter rated canister. The nearest spec is the "Laguna Pressure-Flo 12000 UVC Pressurised Pond Filter with UV" which is for 12000L pond.
He then said I only need 1 layer of (optional) foam (not to filter but to break the water so that it won't spray directly on the filter media (Azoo Active Filter 4 in 1). He also recommend one layer of MarinePure biofilter media ball.

So the whole canister will only house MarinePure and Azoo ONLY !
No mat or foam which he said will definitely clog and need to keep washing.

In his recommendation there is no need to do anything except backflush the media every 6mth to 1 yr which is super easy in a canister system. Since there is no foam there is therefore no need to use the handle on the canister to scrub the clogged foam.

According to him the Azoo media last for 2 years or more depend on flow and the whole canister never need to open for the whole period.

Sound too good to be true ?

According to him 1L of the Azoo treat 50L of water, so I will need 110L !!! They sell boxes of 10L each which mean I need 11 boxes.

The most interesting part of the conversation was when I asked him to quote the whole set up for me. He only quote 2 box of 10L Azoo and 2 boxes of 3.8L x 1.5" MarinePure sphere. I told him but I have a 5500L pond, he then replied no worries as I can add on progressively to a "satisfactory" volume of bio media. I can also varies the type of Azoo media base on the need (as Azoo comes in 4 types for different function). When ask about UV, he mentioned there is no need for UV lamp because the Azoo will "treat" the water so much so there is no problem of Green water.

It all sound so amazing this Azoo media (there is another thread I found in this forum talking about it) but no conclusive testimonial unfortunately.

The adventure continues....
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Old 13-01-2016, 11:49 AM   #15
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My school of thought is simple - remove the crap from the water stream before it has had the chance to break into smaller particles, and decay. That is why I tend to suggest only mechanical separators as opposed to mechanical traps for the first stage of the filter.

Backwashing every 6 months is a bit suspect. Folk I know with massive sand and gravel filters - 55 gallon drums - backwash their systems at least every other weekend. Koi are poop machines. Perhaps every 6 months might work if the pond had only one or two residents in it.

UV is a must for koi. It does much more than take care of green water - it also kills dangerous organisms in the water stream. You can set the UV on a timer so bulbs last longer.

On media - I personally have no experience with Azoo. I can vouch for MarinePure spheres tho. I use 75l in my shower - and it is the only media I use.
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:56 PM   #16
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Default Back to square 1

After days and nights of research over the internet as well as visiting several local koi farm, several local filter suppliers... I am now back to square 1 !

Original intent is to build a pond that is very easy to maintain and compact thus giving more room for the koi. Therefore was looking for "high tech" filtration system versus traditional multi-chamber filter. With a small pond of 4 - 5 ton max, I have narrowed down to :

1. Pressurised Bead filter system

Pros :
Dry Hand maintenance : Pressurised Bead filter system (Aquaviolet Ultima II, Evol Aqua K1, WaterCo, Aquadyne etc) Cleaning them is as simple as flushing the toilet with just switching and turning some valves (typically 10 mins work).
Small foot print and it is external from the pond. Meaning more swimming space for the fishes.

Cons :
Lack local proven install base and expertise - Most of these systems are not available locally, I manage to track down Aquaviolet Ultima and WaterCo reseller in Singapore but they are honest enough to tell me that they mainly do swimming pool and not koi pond.
Single point of failure - since both the mechanical and biological filtration are all inside the canister. Any breakdown will be a total disaster unless one buy a separate unit to standby.
Not a single Koi Farm embrace the bead filter technology, so no support if things go wrong.

2. Traditional gravity fed multi-chamber filter

Pros : ALL koi farm I spoken to swear by it as it is proven for decades in Singapore.
Easy to build HA (High Availability) as a second submersible pump are readily available and not expensive.

Cons : Back breaking cleaning every month or sometime fortnightly. Huge water wastage during cleaning (30% water change whether you like it or not because the filter take up 30% of the pond volume)


I am now back to the drawing board on the traditional multi-chamber design.
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Old 11-02-2016, 04:51 PM   #17
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Heheh time to check out my suggestion of Ultrasieve III and MC16

The sieve has no moving parts to break. Same for the Waterco MC16. Running two pumps as suggested in my drawing will provide redundancy for the most crucial systems. You need an MC16 on only one of the pumps.

Local farms will almost always suggest traditional filters as they get to charge you for back breaking service.
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Old 11-02-2016, 04:52 PM   #18
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Edit: The sieve has *almost* no moving parts to break.

Sometimes the floating weir gets filled with water and needs draining and a silicone patch.
Rare situation tho, and not one that is fatal for the fish.
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Old 11-02-2016, 05:01 PM   #19
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The drawing I did was actually a rework of the initial design for my own koi pond, before I decided to take a risk on installing a rather expensive rotary drum filter in place of the sieves.

The only differences between the design I posted, and the original one for my pond is that I had two sieves running in parallel for increased flow capacity (30-40 tons per hour) and a somewhat larger settlement chamber. I also had a skimmer feeding the settlement chamber in addition to the bottom drain.
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Old 17-02-2016, 10:25 PM   #20
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Default Color epoxy paint

This may sound like a stupid question... why is everyone painting the cement pond with black epoxy paint and not other color ?

I understand epoxy paint comes in different colors.

Also any recommended lifespan for epoxy paint ? How many years before we need to re-paint it again ?
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