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Old 22-05-2004, 02:10 PM   #51
Navyblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilfire
i believe it's too high..

i agree tat 4 a venturi skimmer, no pump is too strong as long as the skimmer dun overflow...
but let me tell u... it will never overflow..regardless wat type of p/p u use. i can tell u if u use a 100000000l/h p/p, it will oso not overflow. of cos when i say 100000000, i'm exaggerating. if u use such a p/p, i believe many parts of ur skimmer will give way 1st.
do u know how a venturi works??
do u understand the principle behind its operation??
let's discuss n share..
Yea I like discussion, that's where we all learn.

Yes I understand what is a venturi and the principle behind a venturi skimmer. You seems to be an engineer. I am not an engineer, you should know more than I do but I'm just telling you what I think and what I have experienced. I only have taken some modules on hydraulic, although it is just a scratch on the surface.

Bro, too high flow can overflow, may be you have never seen one skimmer that overflows. But it will and I have seen it. Although upon using higher flowrate you will have more loss of flow in the venturi, nevertheless the eventual flow will increase, though not in a propotional manner.

Consider the difference of weipro 2011 and 2014, they have the identical inlet and outlet size, made of the exact same material, but they have different "recommended" flow. The difference is only at the reaction chamber being 2014 have a larger reaction chamber. The larger the reaction chamber, the less likely that it overflows. But I agree with you that it is going to be able to take a lot of flow.

AndI agree that the skimmer costruction will not be able to take a pressure that is too high. But most of the pressure will be at the pipings before the venturi, that will be the part to burst if it is going to burst. And I believe that the most powerful pumps that is normally available are not capable of doing so.
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Old 22-05-2004, 02:11 PM   #52
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ok well defined..
so bonjour2, take note the above statement does not imply to all, especially if u intend 2 keep territorial tangs. they need lots of swimming space.
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Old 22-05-2004, 02:15 PM   #53
Navyblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilfire
fren, i think u got the concept all wrong. eductor(venturi) doesnt work tis way. doesnt mean u use a higher flowrate p/p it gonna draw more air. it's not 100% true.
Venturi works by the principle that the high velocity creates a low pressure, thus it draws is air. The higer the flow, the hiher the velocity that you are going to create. And the rate of pressure drop is propotional to the velocity. don't ask me to take out my text book as I have thrown them away :P But I agree with you that the relationship is not linear.

Bro, tell me your understanding then?
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Old 22-05-2004, 02:21 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilfire
ok i'll explain in simplicity then..
fr any weipro skimmer, the black connector which link the p/p outlet 2 the skimmer inlet wif a T-off(air tube) is called an eductor.
in tis eductor, u will c a restriction(smaller diameter, nozzle). at tis nozzle, u will c a T-off, connected 2 a air hose/tube in tis case.
wat happens is water fr the p/p will pass thru the eductor. when the water is at the nozzle(juz b 4 passing thru), it will experience high pressure but low velocity. when the water passes thru(juz after the nozzle), it will experience high velocity but low pressure. it is tis change of state will cause a vacuum at the T-off. tis vacuum will "suck" air thru the hose/tube, n will travel together wif the water.
the whole process is called the VENTURI effect.
now, at a certain nozzle diameter, there will b a max flowrate 2 it. 4 e.g., a 10mm nozzle will allow a max flowrate of 2000l/h. manufacturers will give their recommendations accordingly. so if u gonna use a 4000l/h p/p 4 the above eg, it will still draw the same amt of air. UNLESS, u change the size of the nozzle n tubing.
understand???
You are absolutelly right, The question here is how much is the max flow of that venturi. I do not ahve any info on this, try comparing the venturi of a 2011 and 2014, are they identical, although they have different reccomended flow rate. I believe the recommended flow is far from hitting the maximum limit too far.
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Old 22-05-2004, 02:40 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue
Venturi works by the principle that the high velocity creates a low pressure, thus it draws is air. The higer the flow, the hiher the velocity that you are going to create. And the rate of pressure drop is propotional to the velocity. don't ask me to take out my text book as I have thrown them away :P But I agree with you that the relationship is not linear.

Bro, tell me your understanding then?
bro, u stil dun understand. it's NOT the high vel n low press tat draws the air..

after these lengthy debate, i think i understand u more. i think u like 2 understand things 2 the fullest.

like u said, u r not engineer trained. i was n i took almost 6mths 2 fully understand tis theory. on the surface, it sounds simple. but there r still many factors 2 consider.

many times during my course of training, ppl often get mix up wif weight n mass, pressure n force, torque n horsepower, speed n velocity, volume n flowrate.........

ur pt of view is right, in a lay-man term. but 2 a professional, it need more detail explanation.

tat is y i told jeff i would explain in simplicity. n it has been yrs since i touch on tis theory, n tat is y i believe i has forgotten some of the principles behind it.

think we shd stop here, we r going further n further away. we r going out of topic.

anyway, good 2 hav a debator like u ard. it's fun n ppl will learn more things.

cheers
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Old 22-05-2004, 03:42 PM   #56
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Er... bro devilfire & Navyblue. After reading the discussion, I have only 1 conclusion. WE ARE OUT OF TOPIC! Sorry bonjour2.
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Old 23-05-2004, 01:51 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilfire
bro, u stil dun understand. it's NOT the high vel n low press tat draws the air..

after these lengthy debate, i think i understand u more. i think u like 2 understand things 2 the fullest.

like u said, u r not engineer trained. i was n i took almost 6mths 2 fully understand tis theory. on the surface, it sounds simple. but there r still many factors 2 consider.

many times during my course of training, ppl often get mix up wif weight n mass, pressure n force, torque n horsepower, speed n velocity, volume n flowrate.........

ur pt of view is right, in a lay-man term. but 2 a professional, it need more detail explanation.

tat is y i told jeff i would explain in simplicity. n it has been yrs since i touch on tis theory, n tat is y i believe i has forgotten some of the principles behind it.

think we shd stop here, we r going further n further away. we r going out of topic.

anyway, good 2 hav a debator like u ard. it's fun n ppl will learn more things.

cheers
Well though I am not from the engineering field, I come from science field, and know the difference between weight n mass, pressure n force, torque n horsepower, speed n velocity, volume n flowrate.........

Yes I agree we should stop hehe ... I think debate in theory is a moot because there is no way for us to know is the flow too much for the venturi, we don't know to what extend that the manufacturer overstate or understate the flow requirement. Thus only one thing here that can proves the fact, that is by experiment. I got better skimmate and bubble production when using more flow which speaks for itself, and do not see any bottle neck effect on bubble production as more flow is used.

Bro bonjour2, sorry for the off topic
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Old 23-05-2004, 03:29 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue
Well though I am not from the engineering field, I come from science field, and know the difference between weight n mass, pressure n force, torque n horsepower, speed n velocity, volume n flowrate.........
well, i hope u do..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue
Yes I agree we should stop hehe ... I think debate in theory is a moot because there is no way for us to know is the flow too much for the venturi,
well, fr performance u can tell..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue
Thus only one thing here that can proves the fact, that is by experiment..
ok, can agree, fr experiment u c the performance..like wat i said juz(dun condradict urself)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue
I got better skimmate and bubble production when using more flow which speaks for itself,.
then u shd try again 2 get the best skimmate, think the 1 in the pic is not gd enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue
and do not see any bottle neck effect on bubble production as more flow is used.
here, i hope u dun confuse flow wif vol..
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Old 23-05-2004, 03:30 AM   #59
bonjour2
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So finally , you guys still remember i exist on earth
Aniway, imo , i think a 1500l/h will be the sufficient for weipro2011 , and the most important regarding the overflow and return is not so much abt the diameter of the pipe, rather the distance from the p/p ( ) to the return in main tank and to account for head loss as the more important issue? Agree bros? Better make some calculations before i waste money on p/p then...
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Old 23-05-2004, 03:37 AM   #60
devilfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjour2
Aniway, imo , i think a 1500l/h will be the sufficient for weipro2011 ...
yes, i believe strongly. cant get a good skimmate?? post again. i'll help u.
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