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30-08-2005, 12:05 PM | #41 | |
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above tat I dun have confidence...tats y I said the max is play to light orange change background...will help abit... change food...enhance water will bring out the colors but want to go to blood red abit difficult leh... actually the easier thing to test is to subject the No.1 red to condition 2 and condition 3 and see the diff...u will then understand my statement of "gd reds under wrong conditions will not be the better red" |
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30-08-2005, 12:10 PM | #42 | |
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I think what I left out is the diet part. This, i think is the way you toggle the chromatophores. It's like feeding MP and other foods high in carotenoids will enhance the red/orange coloring of the aro. What I don't understand is in the conditioning of the other non-red base chromatophores. Of course, we can use natural foods like spirunila, spinach mixes and such for blue based colours... Are colour enhancers the only way to go to achieve the best display of colours? |
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30-08-2005, 12:13 PM | #43 | |
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30-08-2005, 12:18 PM | #44 | |
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30-08-2005, 12:40 PM | #45 | |
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I tried feeding all sorts of foods and there are some which are beneficial and have impact on a change...whether its for the fertility or the color patterns I still need to segregate their differences... Spiriluna works to a certain extent but rarely noticeable unless applied in stronger concentrations There were a set of other things which my overseas sifu played with...in terms of absorption of XXX to reset the color cycle...sorry this is not info I can shared out...not my own findings Lights is a stimulants like I mentioned in previous threads...but I consider it as an external stimulants against neuro stimulation...in fact there is a portion on hypnosis of red to induce hormones in my master script but this part not easily accomplished...error may result in unknown consequences.. it will stimulate the red to self adjust the composition of chromatophores, just the same when u are hypnotise by someone who induce u to do certain things u normally wun do... |
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30-08-2005, 02:35 PM | #46 |
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let me try...red coloration and why??
my guess is relatively brownish reddish water they thrive in the wild, to conceal and prevent predation from top and side view...survival instinct which evolve this red coloration??? |
30-08-2005, 02:38 PM | #47 | |
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let me try using my basic knowledge. partly due to the thousands of years the Reds were in their natural habitat....where due to the water (peat, leaves, roots, food, etc of the rivers) this historic fish got plenty of red pigments already in their lifeline....or bloodline. when young....these red pigments are not yet manifest.....and how many years it takes to manifest depends on which part of the rivers they come from generations ago....consider also their surrounding water they live in now....say our tanks or somebody's ponds....or bred and sold from the origins say example IndoReds. another known way to help arowanas get red colour faster is to use tanning lights to manifest those red pigments given to them by those rivers....generations after generations..... |
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30-08-2005, 02:51 PM | #48 | |
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Cannot say wrong...partial correct CAMOUFLAGE COLORS...followed by a release of stress when they are placed in tank...due to the elimination of their predators..hence colors showed up |
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30-08-2005, 03:21 PM | #49 |
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good info in technical term.... Explaining how colour is the way it is in science.
My two cents... Actually the term "red" is our own understanding only...what about orangy red...the one Ronald posted...can it not be a breed by itself too?? It is only our term that we grade it as lousy red...but in truth the fish gene is such and could be another type of red aro altogether. To side track abit on the lighting part.... I felt light do play an important part in the stimulation of colour of fish too...sunlight, artifi light etc etc. Its the wavelength thats the key. Allow me to share what I found few yrs ago from a U-professor...this is her email replied to me. Dear Victor, I am very busy and will therefore not be able to delve deeply into your issues. However, I have conducted a quick search on the general issue and am attaching some of the abstracts that came up. Best wishes, Barbara Demmig-Adams A) Fish and photoprotection: The articles below suggest that compounds other than carotenoids provide UV protection 1) CAROTENOIDS, PHOTOPROTECTION AND FOOD WEB LINKS IN LAKE BAIKAL GREEN J, KOSLOVA T FRESHWATER BIOLOGY 28 (1): 49-58 AUG 1992 Abstract: 1. Carotenoids were extracted from macrophytes, sponges, amphipods, fish stomachs, fish livers, fish ovaries and zooplankton in samples collected from various depths in Lake Baikal. 2. Acetone extracts from macrophytes showed a ratio of absorption at wavelengths of 430 and 665 nm consistently in the range 2.1-2.5. Sponges from very shallow water (1.5 m) showed a similar ratio, but a sponge from 25 m gave a ratio of 6.6, indicating a reduction in the concentration of chlorophyll relative to carotenoids. 3. Extracts from amphipods gave some support for the photoprotection hypothesis, with lower concentrations of carotenoids in amphipods from the deepest water. 4. Some fish took high concentrations of carotenoids into their stomachs, but the concentrations found in their livers and ovaries were very much lower. Fish appear to be one of the carotenoid sinks in Lake Baikal. 5. Plankton samples showed an apparent inversion, with the highest concentration of carotenoid in the deepest sample, but this was a result of the sinking into deep water of the filamentous diatom Melosira. 2) Tolerance of an albino fish to ultraviolet-B radiation Fabacher DL, Little EE, Ostrander GK ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE AND POLLUTION RESEARCH 6 (2): 69-71 1999 Abstract: We exposed albino and pigmented medaka Oryzias latipes to simulated solar ultraviolet-B (UVB) radiation to determine if albino medaka were less tolerant of UVB radiation than medaka pigmented with melanin. There was no difference in the number of albino and pigmented medaka that died during the exposure period. Spectrophotometric analyses of the outer dorsal skin layers from albino and pigmented medaka indicated that, prior to exposure, both groups of fish had similar amounts of an apparent colorless non-melanin photoprotective substance that appears to protect other fish species from WE radiation. Our results indicate that albino medaka were as tolerant of UVB radiation as pigmented medaka because they had similar amounts of this photoprotective substance in the outer layers of the skin. Author Keywords: fish, medaka, melanin, outer skin layers, photoprotection, photoprotective substance, pigment, skin pigmentation, tolerance, ultraviolet-B radiation, UVB radiation 3) Microspectrophotometric analysis of intact chromatophores of the Japanese medaka, Oryzias latipes Armstrong TN, Cronin TW, Bradley BP PIGMENT CELL RESEARCH 13 (2): 116-119 APR 2000 Abstract: To investigate the possible photoprotective role of chromatophores in fish, the absorbances of four types of intact chromatophores in adult and larval Japanese medaka mere analyzed using microspectrophotometric techniques. The absorbance spectrum of each chromatophore class was obtained from 300 to 550 nm. The absorbance spectra of intact leucophores, melanophores and xanthophores were very similar to the published absorbance spectra of the isolated pure pigments contained in each chromatophore type, pteridines, melanin and carotenoids or pteridines, respectively. Based on these absorbance spectra, leucophores and melanophores should provide the most ultraviolet CUV) photoprotection to fish since the compounds they contain, pteridines and melanin, correspondingly, have strong absorbances in the UV region of the spectrum. Xanthophores containing carotenoids are not likely to provide much protection to fish from UV-induced damage since carotenoids have low absorbances in the UV range. Xanthophores containing colored pteridines, however, may provide somewhat greater UV protection to fish, since pteridines absorb more light than carotenoids in the UV portion of the spectrum. The relative frequency, coverage and thickness of these two types of xanthophores should determine how much protection xanthophores as a chromatophore type mould provide against W-induced damage. __________________________________________________ _____________ Barbara Demmig-Adams Professor Department of Environmental, Population, and Organismic Biology Ramaley N122 University of Colorado Boulder, CO 80309-0334 |
30-08-2005, 03:24 PM | #50 |
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Second part of her reply to me....
B) Fish and carotenoid-based coloration: The literature (see only a few examples below) suggest that intense carotenoid-based coloration may communicate vigor and health - since carotenoids have been shown to stimulate the immune system. 1) Influence of various dietary synthetic carotenoids on bio-defence mechanisms in rainbow trout, Oncorhynchus mykiss (Walbaum) Amar EC, Kiron V, Satoh S, Watanabe T AQUACULTURE RESEARCH 32: 162-173 Suppl. 1 DEC 2001 Abstract: This study examined the influence of different carotenoids on growth and some immune indices in rainbow trout. Six semipurified casein-based diets were formulated to contain one of three different carotenoids: astaxanthin, canthaxanthin and beta-carotene, at 100 mg kg(-1), each of them with vitamins A, C and E either added or omitted. The two control diets contained no carotenoids and were either with or without the vitamins, Rainbow trout weighing about 140 g were fed the diets for 9 weeks. Specific growth rate, feed:gain ratio and nonspecific immune parameters were determined. Growth and feed conversion were similar among the groups. Immune parameters like production of reactive oxygen species by head kidney leukocytes and plasma total immunoglobulin levels did not vary with the treatment. Serum complement activity in both beta-carotene groups and the vitamin-containing astaxanthin group were significantly higher than both the control fish. Serum lysozyme activity in the vitamin-containing carotene and astaxanthin groups were significantly different from both control groups, Phagocytic activity was also high in the vitamin-containing beta-carotene and astaxanthin groups compared with the controls. For phagocytic index, in addition to the foregoing groups, the vitamin-containing canthaxanthin group gave better results compared with the controls. The vitamin-containing astaxanthin and beta-carotene groups also exhibited better nonspecific cytotoxicity for the peripheral blood lymphocytes at all effector-to-target ratios. Thus, among the carotenoids studied, beta-carotene and astaxanthin elevated humoral factors such as serum complement and lysozyme activity, as well as cellular factors such as phagocytosis and nonspecific cytotoxicity. In the presence of the vitamins the carotenoids exerted a greater influence on the bio-defense mechanisms of rainbow trout. 2) THE BREEDING COLORATION OF MALE 3-SPINED STICKLEBACKS (GASTEROSTEUS-ACULEATUS) AS AN INDICATOR OF ENERGY INVESTMENT IN VIGOR FRISCHKNECHT M EVOLUTIONARY ECOLOGY 7 (5): 439-450 SEP 1993 Abstract: A necessary condition of most models of intersexual selection requires that secondary sexual traits are costly so that cheating is prevented. If the conspicuous breeding colouration of male three-spined sticklebacks (Gasterosteus aculeatus L.) is such a handicap, it must involve costs. I examined the energetic costs of the breeding colouration by varying the energy contents of the daily food supply among five groups of sticklebacks over a 10 week period. The nutritional carotenoid level, i.e. the colour pigment used in the breeding colouration, was constant for all fish. Both the increase of their condition factor and the condition level they finally achieved correlated positively with the food ration of the groups. Individuals whose condition increased during the experiment developed a more intensive red colouration. However, a direct correlation between food quantity and the red breeding colouration reached at the end of the experiment did not exist. Nevertheless, given the limitation of pigment availability, there was still variation in the breeding colouration and the costs for the metabolism of the colouration were sufficient to render it an honest signal: a female stickleback can assess a male's condition and condition change over the past few weeks by the intensity of the colour of his blue eyes (which is not based on carotenoids and whose pigments were therefore not controlled in the food) and his red jaw, respectively. How much an individual male fish invests in increase of length and increase of condition (which correlate negatively with each other) seems to be, at least partly, his own strategic decision, which could have important consequences in the competition for female mates. It is eventually this decision that a male stickleback seems to signal with his red jaw. |
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