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Old 31-01-2005, 04:04 PM   #21
roidan
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Then when we come to chillers, do we want to oversize a chiller? I suppose if the overall cost savings is evident when we use a bigger chiller, we should oversize compared to what the face-value ratings of the equipment suggest.

A chiller rated for 200 gallon tank is used on a 200gallon tank. Temperature is maintained at 27deg. Does the manufacturer gives the assurance how long must the chiller run in a day to sustain this 27deg? So end up this 200gallon rated chiller run almost 24 hours a day just to keep the temperature at 27deg. But the manufacturer not wrong and you cannot sue them, especially when they have rated the chiller able to maintain 27deg for 200gallons.

But then comes the next chiller rated for 300gallon tank. End up although it uses more electricity than the 200g during its operation cycle, it maintains 27deg not by running the whole day. When the overall dollars and cents is calculated, it is actually better to use this oversized equipment which ran less often throughout the day, let alone the capacity to maintain this 27deg when ambient temperature soars during hot spells.

So, oversizing, does have its tangible and obvious benefits as well.
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Old 31-01-2005, 04:10 PM   #22
spsman
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Default u hve not voted

Quote:
Originally Posted by roidan
Oversizing brings about an increase in performance, especially in the same method of skimming. But whether does the reefer want to oversize or not becomes a personal choice like what we mentioned.

For you, there may not be a need to oversize, but for others, there is a need to oversize to create a safety buffer.

If the potential load of your system is not critical enough when things start dying off, oversizing benefits are not as obvious as one who has a very high potential load should things take a turn for the worst.

So to answer if a skimmer needs to be oversized, it comes back to a personal choice and also personal application. The benefits of oversizing are obviously there despite drawbacks like higher cost....using what is more than necessary in normal day-to-day operations..... just like the benefits of undersizing or maintain just-adequate levels are less cost, not aggresively stripping the water of good substances but the drawbacks are that it cannot expand its perfomance when emergencies arise and so on.

bottomline comes back to what a reefer feel is more important for himself
thks for prompt reply but the chiller is not mentioned. btw, u have not cast your vote yet, bro.
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Old 31-01-2005, 04:14 PM   #23
roidan
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Thanks for the reminder, but I can't bring myself to vote because there is quite a disparity between local products depending on who makes them

So i cannot say i wholeheartedly support local products or i wholeheartedly shun them.

Given a choice, I would vote, I will support local products selectively, very selectively
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Old 31-01-2005, 05:50 PM   #24
devilfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spsman
bro, why dun u say that the driver is a variable then.... becos some drivers are better than others. maybe its the driver's fault. i already stated that 80km/h is the speed.

sorry bro, really dunno how to communicate w u. paiseh
bro, wat i meant was any engine of any size, to travel at 80km/h will, like u said, ruin the engine in time 2 come, n not oni ferrari. in tis case, which i think it was totally out of context. how would u justify tat statement 2 ur explanation.

u r fr the navy, unless u hav never been onboard ship, else i believe u know wat's the meaning n purpose of "blow shoot". not sure? ask ur CENT.
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Old 31-01-2005, 07:57 PM   #25
nim75sg
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Off topic ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by losmandy
Why worry about trace elements? Weekly water changes are good husbandry. Not only that replaces the trace elements but also removes some toxics that accumulates in the system.
Changing Water?

This is the History liao for all my corridor of tanks which includes both freshwater and saltwater tanks as I am not a slave to them.

You should be the Lord of the Tanks (like yours truly) by having more time admiring your setup after a hard day's work instead of doing periodic partial water changes.

Fyi, my matured 6ft marine tank (outside the house where it is bombarded with our weather conditions) has not been gone thru any partial water changes except topping-up water due to evaporation loss.

If you manage the water well .. the fishes will take care of themselves!
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Old 31-01-2005, 08:17 PM   #26
losmandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spsman
[B]not true. driving a ferarri at 80 km/h will ruin its engine in time to come.
How come talk reefing equipments end up talking about cars?

I don't know which ferrari model you are referring to. Anyway we take the Ferrari Enzo as an example.

Power: (SAE net) 650 bhp @ 7800 rpm
Torque: (SAE net) 485 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm
Redline: 8000 rpm

Transmission: 6-speed manual with automatic shifting and clutch

Final-drive ratio: 4.10:1

Gear Ratio Mph/1000 rpm Max. speed in gears
1 3.15 6.3 50 mph (8000 rpm)
2 2.18 9.1 73 mph (8000 rpm)
3 1.57 12.6 101 mph (8000 rpm)
4 1.19 16.7 134 mph (8000 rpm)
5 0.94 21.2 169 mph (8000 rpm)
6 0.76 26.1 209 mph (8000 rpm)

80km/h is about 50 mph so we drive in 3rd gear at 4000rpm or 4th gear at about 3000rpm. I didn't know that driving at mid of the torque curve will spoilt the car man...

Like that cham already I go to work already traffic jam and looks like my 3yr old car need to be scrapped soon, heng heng COE dropping :P

You ask an olympic sprinter to walk slowly he will not have any medical risks but if you ask an ah pek to run like an olympic sprinter...sure up lorry one...lol
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Old 31-01-2005, 08:22 PM   #27
losmandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nim75sg
Off topic ....



Changing Water?

This is the History liao for all my corridor of tanks which includes both freshwater and saltwater tanks as I am not a slave to them.

You should be the Lord of the Tanks (like yours truly) by having more time admiring your setup after a hard day's work instead of doing periodic partial water changes.

Fyi, my matured 6ft marine tank (outside the house where it is bombarded with our weather conditions) has not been gone thru any partial water changes except topping-up water due to evaporation loss.

If you manage the water well .. the fishes will take care of themselves!
skimming + no water change?

All skimmer removes trace elements along with DOCs and some toxics released by life forms in your reef.

When you feed, you will also introduce some heavy metals into your tank, all these will slowly accumulate.

Water changes will take care of all these.

Frankly speaking I still have no confident to do that. With sensitive fishes like AT swimming in my tank, I feel I need to give them the best of everything. If I skip in my water changes, my AT will come knock my head and complain to me. For the sake of my AT I still spend 5-10mins every weekend to do the 5-10% water change :P With proper planning and setup water changes can be made very easily.
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Old 31-01-2005, 10:23 PM   #28
spsman
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Default hi there, interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by losmandy
skimming + no water change?

All skimmer removes trace elements along with DOCs and some toxics released by life forms in your reef.

When you feed, you will also introduce some heavy metals into your tank, all these will slowly accumulate.

Water changes will take care of all these.

Frankly speaking I still have no confident to do that. With sensitive fishes like AT swimming in my tank, I feel I need to give them the best of everything. If I skip in my water changes, my AT will come knock my head and complain to me. For the sake of my AT I still spend 5-10mins every weekend to do the 5-10% water change :P With proper planning and setup water changes can be made very easily.
It is easy for one to say that "with proper planning, water changes can be made easily.' how many tanks do u own btw, may i ask? if its possible, could u post a a group photo of your current tanks/ tank? Dun be mistaken, but i dunno anyone who is willing to change water for all 9-10 tanks. btw, there is another secret to maintaining water parameters which probably u are unaware of yet. u can ask if me if u want to know..

water changing is your personal regiment. but the question here is about the need to oversize a skimmer and the removal of trace elements due to over-skimming. which u have not answered yet. Whether u keep AT or damsels, it does not matter at all. It does not even matter if u manage to keep a shark.

i do appreciate the response tho, cheers.
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Old 31-01-2005, 10:41 PM   #29
spsman
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Default thks for info

Quote:
Originally Posted by losmandy
How come talk reefing equipments end up talking about cars?

I don't know which ferrari model you are referring to. Anyway we take the Ferrari Enzo as an example.

Power: (SAE net) 650 bhp @ 7800 rpm
Torque: (SAE net) 485 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm
Redline: 8000 rpm

Transmission: 6-speed manual with automatic shifting and clutch

Final-drive ratio: 4.10:1

Gear Ratio Mph/1000 rpm Max. speed in gears
1 3.15 6.3 50 mph (8000 rpm)
2 2.18 9.1 73 mph (8000 rpm)
3 1.57 12.6 101 mph (8000 rpm)
4 1.19 16.7 134 mph (8000 rpm)
5 0.94 21.2 169 mph (8000 rpm)
6 0.76 26.1 209 mph (8000 rpm)

80km/h is about 50 mph so we drive in 3rd gear at 4000rpm or 4th gear at about 3000rpm. I didn't know that driving at mid of the torque curve will spoilt the car man...

Like that cham already I go to work already traffic jam and looks like my 3yr old car need to be scrapped soon, heng heng COE dropping :P

You ask an olympic sprinter to walk slowly he will not have any medical risks but if you ask an ah pek to run like an olympic sprinter...sure up lorry one...lol
i think u dun understand the topic, we were discusing abt the oversizing of chillers. the example was to tell u that u dun need exageration to do a simple job.
driving a ferari at 80km/h is under utilising a quality machine. if u really understand the dynamics of the ferrari engine, u will know that u cannot do that for a long time. the engine will be ruined.
With regard to chillers, manufacturers have tested their pdts and made recommendations to the fish keeper accordingly. that is for what gallons,, use which model. Like i said previously in my reply to bro roidan, at most u factor in the halides.
your example of the ah pek and sprinter is totally amusing.
my question was why the need to oversize... I did not say u shud undersize your chiller. no offence, but what u just said is kinda no meaning....and i dun understand a single bit.
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Old 31-01-2005, 10:49 PM   #30
spsman
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Default hi bro

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilfire
'

1) could u kindly elaborate how on earth will oni driving a ferarri at 80km/h will ruin its engine?
pls enlighten. thanks.

u cant quote a ferrari as its speed is variable, tat is, u can control the speed.

again, out of context.
2) QUOTE=devilfire]bro, wat i meant was any engine of any size, to travel at 80km/h will, like u said, ruin the engine in time 2 come, n not oni ferrari. in tis case, which i think it was totally out of context. how would u justify tat statement 2 ur explanation.

u r fr the navy, unless u hav never been onboard ship, else i believe u know wat's the meaning n purpose of "blow shoot". not sure? ask ur CENT. [/QUOTE]

gee bro, i didn't know u work at Jalan Kayu. please see my reply to bro losmandy. cheerz. hey we are bros... no hard feelings right???
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