The Rep System
 

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1. There are two mechanism. One is the rep points and the other is the rep altering power.

2. Everyone starts off at 10 rep points which is neutral. We can start from 0 but 10 gives everyone a buffer so tat even if u get zapped from the start, u still hv some way to go.

3. When ur rep points drop below -10, I'll put you under moderation. If it drops below -50, I'll disable ur account.

4. You'll need a minimum of 20 rep points and 50 post counts before you get any rep altering power. So registration of new nicks to destabilise the system will not work.

5. For senior members here, every 1200 days will give them one additional rep altering power. And every 500 rep points members gained will give them one additional rep altering power. Maximum rep power will be 8.

6. A limit to only one click a person can give over a 24 hour period. You can only add or minus once daily. This means you either up your friend or down those u find frivolous.

7. User Spread. You cannot give to the same person until you have given to 100 others. So that means you cannot just click on one until his reps go spiralling down uncontrollably. So if a member has very high reps, that's just many hv voted for him. Or if a member has very low reps, he is disliked by the majority.

8.The rep system is not about right or wrong. It's abt whether someone agrees or disagrees with ur post. No reason is needed. You can say a XBack needs tanning and the someone think u talk rubbish, u can get zapped. You win some , you lose some. Simple as that. It's basically abt opinions. And to a certain extent, the number of friends u have. Remember u hv one click per day and you cannot click the same member again until you hv clicked 100 others, so click wisely. :)

yes of cos, but by restricting the number of clicks over a 24 hour period and the number of members u need to go thru before getting back to the same person helps to eradicate and minimise this "pitfall" ... the zapping (minus) of rep points may not be related to trade .. it could be the nature of the persons postings .. some members do nothing but upzz the buy/sell threads (when there were post counts), some juz frequent all forums and post " nice fish " .. U may disagree with this and zapped them or some give very good explanation how his method help in his XBack achieving an earlier crossing, u may want to up his points. but regardless, there'll always be opposing views since fishkeeping is a live stock so being added or being zapped, for the normal hobbyists, shd not be taken too seriously. maybe one day, a member has 200 points and someone sees " waoh so many, zapped him one point" .. well please dun kick a fuss cos its not going to make a difference. Just enjoy an additional tool that Vbulletin has.

We will take to task the person whose comments are vulgar.

1) The person can read the comments, and the identity of the person is not made know, he remains anonymous

2) The comments are not compulsory, but any vulgarities comments shd be reported and I'll zapped the person spewing vulgarities but I'll not answer those "why i kena zapped" or " who zapped me" questions.

there'll always be those that will upzz you and those that will zapped you .. so at the end of the day, it evens out .... unless the person has no frens

I can read all the comments, every single individual

the choice is given to the members who/what u zapped or add (including to mod and admin) ... wat kind of post u think enhances the persons reps and wat kind of posts deserves to be zapped ... we wun control that, otherwise it's as good as curtailing member's free will ...

important thing is 1 click over 24 hrs period
cannot click same person until u hv click 50 others
no vulgarities in the comments box

In a poll there was no restrictions, anybody cud vote ... in the rep system, only those with rep power cud vote and the individual has a buffer to begin with, so to manipulate is a little more difficult .. u hv to garner a lot of support either by pm or herd instinct to "kill" someone off and if u do that, u run the risk of being zapped by those who disagree with ur actions too

Yes, we always give benefit of doubt, and tat's why banning is always a last resort ...

threads being closed when there's no vulgarity ? banning a person? by this I take it tat u opined there was a mistake in the mods action ? if yes, I do need u to point out to me ... but lest it be mistaken, vulgarity is not the sole reason for closing threads ... one example ... I pawn my dog to buy aro thread or why i feed my aro dog meat they dun want to eat .. this kind of threads are just frivolous and does nothing to improve the hobby, by and large ... and is created solely for annoyance ..

Wat for add or minus rep points ? it's not abt wat for ? it's a system where to a certain extent, the moderation task is entrusted to the members, assuming the members are matured and can see the merits of this system.

Who is contributing, who is not can easily tell ? yes and no ... there's a herd instinct in here, and u know it too, how many times hv we tried to tell them crossbreeds, abt brand names, abt wat matters and wat not matters ... u ask urself, did it work ? did they take ur advice ? it is precisely because we're all individuals, having a mind of our own, that all of us, think wat we hv experienced as being correct and not being able to try and see the other view. I hv a question, is intense colouration or crossing considered the more important criteria in a xback ? no conclusive answer ..

the grouse that I expound .. who add me, who zap me ... this whining is basically the one single grouse tat I have abt the system ... for all the matured and thinking people around, there is always the frivolous ones too .. but we cannot abort or stop an idea just for these few people

i understand abt ur expressing opinions on this webby and sincerely, i appreciate it ...

it is however my responsibility to explain the merits in a system tat i see as something that can work ...

Wat is constructive ? wat is not ? no clear answer .. wat u see is constructive is constructive .. it is ur opinion .. this system entrust that decision making to you and you make the decision whether its constructive or not ..... yes, there is always room for improvement but first, the basics must be understood so that we're on the same wavelength ... again, its not abt right or wrong .. its abt opinions and to a certain extent, ur frens here. After all, this is a community, a community of fish lovers where we all want to make frens as well as learn more abt our chosen hobby

The whole thing is abt opinion ... actually even mods decision is all on opinions .. let's say this guy keeps posting something for sale, and its always the same thing ... so we tell him, u hv been consistently selling this stuff, pls do post ur sale at commercial ... i tell u, there'll be 3 kinds of replies .. 1) I not making profit/making very little profit, so its not commercial 2) this is a good lobang, i'm juz sharing lobang, isn't AF all abt sharing ? 3) sorry, it is not my intention to circumvent the guidelines, i'll do so in future .. so wat does tat say ? we'll insist and enforce our guidelines .. but obviously those who disagree will disagree, so again tat is abt opinions .. we can't even conclude the member is wrong .. juz tat in this forum, the mods opinion counts in moderating ...

In this rep system, the opinion is left to the members .. why not two members .. if the post or thread is genuinely bad, tat member will not be zapped by one, he'll be zapped by many, to get two members to zap same post is quite unlikely ...

I disagree with ur opinion will kill freedom of speech/opinion ? - personally i dun think so, disagreeing is by itself an opinion ... why we allow this disagreement to turn to zapping ... in many scenarios we come across, the thread inevitably turns into flaming when disagreement occurs .. many do not want to give their opinion and they just keep quiet, this system allows them to have a say, the silent majority to have a say, in their opinions w/o engaging in the verbal war .

In time to come, most members will hv their rep points gradually increase.

Discourage newbie threads ? not necessarily so, but i hope to discourage frivolous multiple postings of the same thread .. yesterday, one member posted 3 threads " Are u Asian" in arotalk, in chat and in gatherings ... the thread is inappropriate and worse, it spams 3 forums .. so where do we draw a line wat to encourage, discourage ? other than the arotalk FAQ (which very little people read), we've also hv Freshwater Forum Resources and Articles, Planted Forum Resources and Articles, Marine Resources and Articles, why not read up all this before starting a new thread ? I understand newbie concerns, because i'm a newbie in certain aspects too but the archive has so many things to read ? why start another thread on the same ? seriously the level of discussion cannot improve unless the members start to consider this a serious forum .. the mods can lead by starting new threads ... I hv one question for all to ponder ... where are those guys that started with us in 2000/2001/even 2002 ... how many are still here, besides wrx, EH etc still quite active, so many hv actually very little postings since .. wat is the reason ? the forum has too little topic of good discussion and too many frivolous postings/threads .. " why my aro dun eat ? " or " will my 8" flowerhorn kill my 10" aro?" ... in a forum having a demographics as wide as AF, moderating cannot eradicate these postings, it cannot bring the level of discussion higher ... i'll say, let's cut this crap threads out ... but how to do this ? closing all those threads ? tat will be draconian .. actually even those frivolous threads hv their set of supporters, and not because they think it shd be here but because they think its entertaining .. so this method is to give the power of moderating to the members with some safeguards thrown in. U can't eliminate relationship problem... who dun like who ? but we can prevent the continuous zapping of the same person by the same person ... and tat's wat we hv done

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Why dun we make whoever zaps the reps be known ?

The likelihood is that threads will be started targetting at individuals
Why u down my reps ?
Wat makes u think I'm not a true fishkeeper
and when there's no reply
Coward, Idiot, Imbecile, Hide behind computer etc

Basically this is also to allow the silent majority to hv a say w/o engaging in flames. And lest u guys be mistaken that I'm immune from this, no I'm not. I'm just as susceptible to being zap points w/o people giving me a reason. For those members I see them as credible, I'll ask them. For others, I dun even bother. That is because the system has been entrusted to them to make the individual choice of wat they want to do. In a thread, I can see some saying they dun care and dun participate and I go take a look at their records. Bingo, they hv a track record of zapping others too. :p

Basically every system has its merits and demerits, its the people using it tat determines how good the system is ... in a system, because of free will, some will follow the system and make the best of it, some will continually whine amidst suspicions of conspiracy and some will think of methods/ways to abuse it .. this is inevitable

Before we implement, we ask ourselves ...

wat else can we do to improve the webby ? wat else can we do to cut out those frivolous threads or unconstructive posts ? will it be nothing ? cos wat we implement may not work ? and then we sit by and do nothing .. or we implement a system tat if properly used, can and will work ...

I'll like to achieve a forum where we can leave most things to the members, tat they can dictate how we progress, maybe like some say, this forum in not mature enough for this but Arofanatics is into its fifth year , when are they going to mature ?

In a very short summary, it is abt threads/postings/members tat are frivolous, the members hv the say to zap them. Or in others like those at the Resources/Articles Forums where members contribute, we add them. Basically, we pass the onus to members to encourage good contributions, discourage frivolous postings.

Please do not pm me why ur reps got zapped, cos I dunno. Its all individual opinions, much like I wun know why u add/zapped another person (including me) and please dun start threads to whine and spew negatives like cowards, idiots, imbeciles etc

Any questions on the system itself, not answered above, u can ask here. But, please dun tok cok here.

For those who are bothered by this system or simply do not wish to be part of it, switch ur board settings that is located at the bottom left hand corner of the main forum page, from Arofanatics (default) to vBulletin3 .. u still have a choice

hmn...how come this thread is all bro john replying only?

after reading all the reply, i felt that most of the reply is quite logical. However i have a suggestion. Is it possible to start a forum which could let bro/sis blend into the crowd more easily? something like a 'feedback forum'. Like bro/sis can post their 'zap or add rep' into that forum. like that, the rest of us can learn from it and improve ourself so that we can blend into the crowd. This forum is not to pinpoint at one another, but to provide an area of improvement. So that as time goes by, we can expect better reply from bro/sis whenever a thread is started. :D

check ur user cp ... if there're comments u'll know wat they are .. if not u can at least know which post

I think for the system to work they have to remain unknown by default (of cos they can choose to be known).

How about making it compulsory to click reasons for zapping like selecting from a number of choices, with option to leave own comments in a text field. This is to prevent pple from leaving "kjwhiufgwhguerhg" in a text field.

Having said that, I think most of the time we know vaguely why we are zapped, cos we know the thread and we know what we said in it. Its accepting the zapping that is difficult.

isolated case ... so i wun dwell very much on it ...
but the disagreement may be that u ask members here to go to another forum or it is interpreted as such ... and tat's why u got zapped
if i were sharing, i wud hv cut and paste the answer and credit the website for it

this is actually a vBulletin system and reputation refers to forum reputation, nothing to do with a person's real life reputation at all.

I refer this thread to you. To me, this clearly shows the debate is alive and kicking. It is not just about disagreement, but how u put forth ur disagreement. This thread shows although there are old established thoughts that are widely accepted, u can still disagree and challenge. Of cos, u hv to challenge with a clear view and perspective. To me, it encourages responsible debate.
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=170807

With regards to ur water changing example, I refer you to this thread, I think that speaks for itself
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=170891

the number of 13000 , is yes, the number of registered members but in reality, the number of members actively engaged surfing AF is about 400 daily. I think practically, we shd look more at active members.

practically it is very difficult for a person to achieve -50, unless he's really disliked by the majority and he has no frens at all. He needs 60 people to zap him and no one to add him. Not tat it is impossible, but its highly unlikely.

U mentioned most people wouldn't want to use it unless they have to, since the vote is limited to 1 daily. If this is the case when it comes to adding, its also the case when it comes to zapping. And its intentionally configured such so tat any giving of reputations is done selectively. If it is required, I can even tweaked it to 1 vote daily or give reputation power to people with a longer registration date and minimum posts to reduce of the number of eligible members giving out rep points.

there is actually a hack, called a traders ratings but because of our own reasons that we dun want AF to be cast in the light of a buy/sell platform, we decided not to proceed with that. With all due respect, I really dun see wat giving reasons can do ... we've all seen remarks like " not a true arokeeper " when someone sells his aro and then for the next few days , u'll see the person who got zapped with those remarks harping on that in whichever thread he goes to

i've already put it in my earlier post in this same thread .. i'll appreciate u dun jump into conclusions and put words to be attributed to me ... thanks

actually we can see our user cp and see which post it has been zapped (usually those who add will give reason or name) ... u can almost certainly know the reason urself, but most times we'll choose not to see it ... and of cos post to ask and justify ourselves ... as for those tat u cannot see the reason, like wat u say, dismiss them as stupid or trivial ... if u see a systematic way of zapping urself, (like in ur case), eight zaps all within one minute of each other, u know i'll look into it ... although i dun reveal any names to you, i believe u know action has been taken

there's another case of a member being zapped badly ... and tat's because he posted for sales the same items in all the different forums ... as usual he choose not to see wat he has done and pm me .. but his reps were all zapped by different people, most dun give a reason but to me, its obvious its because of spamming

Jwhtan...I see your logic behind this. But if you dont want to put in the zappers name...another upgrade would be to enforce 'comments'...make it a mandatory field. So, if zapper got nothing to say....No zap. If you want to zap someone...then be man (woman) enough to say something....whatever it is.!!! This is about taking accountability for your actions.....

pls read the post u quoted ... thanks

Even if comments are made compulsory....
You may at the end of the day see comments like aaaaaaa, bbbbb, cccccc...
I dun think its at all necessary for the admin to make comments compulsory...
Its up to the members to use the system as it was meant for.....
Most importantly, the rep system is just an additional feature/ tool in the forum, ultimately its the sharing and learning thats important to me....
Just my views.... :D

if they put aaa bbb ccc and still allow to zap people then there is some serious problem. Since we are being tagged to this REP points, it is only fair to allow people to see why this person is being hate/love by the community so nobody will be labelled as "S hole" without cause.

Bro ,, I think hor,,,
why not everything as usual,, but the total number of person who zap either plus or minus in the same topic, can only entiltle to one plus or minus max..

Is lika casting a vote end of a day.. Only admin or moderator can make the final tick on the rep pts ..
So that those who against somebody cannot do things at their own way,, everyday free zap zap zap people liao..

YOu can simply get many zap [ minus ] juz by offending a person.. Maybe even of no valid reasons.

For ya consideration hor. Juz a thought of mine.

u can't do that ... deleting them away will then disable ur rep altogether ..

bro, like that then admin/mod will be bery bo eng if they are to make the final tick on the rep pts...this sys can only work if only everyone cooperate...and this sys works very well against trouble makers as its easier to lose pts than earning it...ppl start to think b4 they reply...if tio backstab for reply which u think is good, then is purely ur luck no good...just dont take ur rep pt too seriously...i am sure if u happened to hit -50 pts, the mod/admin will review ur case...

Other than Admin, ur zap power will be at half of ur add power ... let's say ur rep power is 4, ur zap power will be 2 only ... this is a intended bias so that it'll be more difficult to zap a member to minus .... the main intention is always to encourage rather than to penalise

I've tweaked the system to one click per 24 hour period and 200 rep points to increase one rep altering power. The first post has been updated accordingly.

i dunno how u linked the two different things together ... what is wrong to implement this new rule ? it allows us to have a tighter control over the number of points that can be added or zapped daily since it now appears to me there are a lot of people with spare points available w/o knowing what to do with them ... anyway whether there is this new rule or dun hv this new rule, u also dun think the system works, so wat's your fuss about ?

But for us, we know it works and that's good enough for us. What you feel, as far as yourself is concerned, we'll just leave it to yourself with all due respect

used to be 25 days ... now 50 days and now less "spare" points that one does not know wat to do with

Some of the mods and the admin just had a meeting on Wednesday, including Alvin Koh ... we're of the opinion that the system works ... for the very fact that members are bothered about being zapped and cheers to getting added is by itself signs that this works, all the moanings and the whinings are also signs that it works, although they are irritating. You're right it does not reflect your true character. This reflects however your online persona, how you get along with others and how others relate to you.

I know I look errrr, not very much like what I typed, too Beng and not the kind of goody two shoes one would associate with my online persona. Well, just one of those things.

24 hour from your last zap or add ...

the reason is we do not want to keep a huge data base for these points ... our two servers are nearing capacity and having more of these just slows it down ..

I wish to but it's really tedious to do many things at the same time ... let this whole rep issue settle down and the community knows exactly wat this is for before we do something else ... u've seen the backlash we get and we really need a breather before going on to educate our members to do something else ..

There are a couple of things we need to do .... we need to convince Vil to come back, we need to find a replacement for Shirley at Guppy Talk ... we need to collate the orders for the Planted Forums T-shirts ... and Alvin is preparing for his big day ... there are many things to do, but very little hands

this is another aspect that takes up server space ... but it's more towards educating the members to do so ...we can always implement this same method like u quote whole posts, ur reps get deducted but that again will create another set of backlash ... actually deep inside, these rep points are worthless, nothing for one to fret about

pls read the first post on the mechanics ... pls do not ask repeated same questions that has been answered ... rep points and rep power are two different mechanics

Hi, Mods. I've posted this suggestion in another but it doesnt seem to get much attention from the Mods, so i decide to paste it here. Wat do you think of the suggestion? Is it feasible?