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-   -   bumble bee grouper requirements (http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539353)

wllm33 30-07-2018 10:33 PM

bumble bee grouper requirements
 
hi sifus,

if buy juvenile from lfs, from day 1 what water parameters is best to mix the water in the bag.

I measured ph in bag water is 6.8.

Do we need add salt and roughly how much to a 1 ft tank . I have coral chips and sand in tank.

Thank you for any advice as have no success so far:(

mictok 01-08-2018 11:44 AM

Best in blackish or marine , use marine salt, not normal salt.
Fresh water can keep but short lived most of the time.

wllm33 01-08-2018 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mictok (Post 10014970)
Best in blackish or marine , use marine salt, not normal salt.
Fresh water can keep but short lived most of the time.

mind sharing difference btw marine vs normal salt. Will normal salt definitely cannot be used?
If so, using marine salt , will need hygrometer to have exact salt conc same as marine fishes to keep the fish alive for long?

also what about hardness and ph ( I measured the ph water came with the fish is 6.8 from lfs). Is this just temporary for the fish and it will not survive for long.
mine lasted 3 days:(

If not mistaken, seen a thread here, and TS says his bumberbee is now fully converted to fresh water and thriving. So possible to live long with full conversion>
Thanks for advice:)

HuttShun 02-08-2018 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wllm33 (Post 10014974)
mind sharing difference btw marine vs normal salt. Will normal salt definitely cannot be used?
If so, using marine salt , will need hygrometer to have exact salt conc same as marine fishes to keep the fish alive for long?

also what about hardness and ph ( I measured the ph water came with the fish is 6.8 from lfs). Is this just temporary for the fish and it will not survive for long.
mine lasted 3 days:(

If not mistaken, seen a thread here, and TS says his bumberbee is now fully converted to fresh water and thriving. So possible to live long with full conversion>
Thanks for advice:)

Hello,

Marine salt contains buffers as well as several trace elements that mimics actual reef waters, which is essential for the well-being of marine fish.

Table salt usually contains iodine or other caking agent to prevent the salt from caking due to humidity. These other additives are usually toxic to fishes in high concentrations.

Aquarium salt does not contain the additives found in table salt.

Bumblebee grouper can survive in freshwater, but they will not last as long as those that are kept in a marine environment. Juvenile bumblebee grouper will travel to estuaries containing brackish water to look for prey as they are more adaptable than adults, and they mostly return to the ocean when they are larger.

In order for the fish to truly thrive, I would suggest a LARGE marine environment for these creatures, as they do get humongous. I guess most hobbyist purchase them due to their "exotic" factor of having a saltwater fish living in a freshwater environment, and expect them to fully thrive in freshwater, resulting in pre-matured deaths of juveniles. The same applies for trevallies and morray eels. These freshwater "converted" fishes would inhabit estuaries or even rivers when they are younger, but they will eventually migrate back to the ocean when they are older.

They do survive in freshwater when they are younger but they require more and more salt as they get older. Maybe their lifespan would be prolonged if the freshwater's pH is about 8.0 - 8.5, just maybe.

Hope that answers some of your queries.

Cheers!
Hutt Shun

wllm33 03-08-2018 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuttShun (Post 10014987)
Hello,

Marine salt contains buffers as well as several trace elements that mimics actual reef waters, which is essential for the well-being of marine fish.

Table salt usually contains iodine or other caking agent to prevent the salt from caking due to humidity. These other additives are usually toxic to fishes in high concentrations.

Aquarium salt does not contain the additives found in table salt.

Bumblebee grouper can survive in freshwater, but they will not last as long as those that are kept in a marine environment. Juvenile bumblebee grouper will travel to estuaries containing brackish water to look for prey as they are more adaptable than adults, and they mostly return to the ocean when they are larger.

In order for the fish to truly thrive, I would suggest a LARGE marine environment for these creatures, as they do get humongous. I guess most hobbyist purchase them due to their "exotic" factor of having a saltwater fish living in a freshwater environment, and expect them to fully thrive in freshwater, resulting in pre-matured deaths of juveniles. The same applies for trevallies and morray eels. These freshwater "converted" fishes would inhabit estuaries or even rivers when they are younger, but they will eventually migrate back to the ocean when they are older.

They do survive in freshwater when they are younger but they require more and more salt as they get older. Maybe their lifespan would be prolonged if the freshwater's pH is about 8.0 - 8.5, just maybe.

Hope that answers some of your queries.

Cheers!
Hutt Shun

hi,
thnks for clear explanation.
seen a few youtube videos of bumble bee grouper sizes quite large in a 3-4 ft tank and owner seems to suggest they are in freshwater environment even though quite big as per aquarium tank size expectations. So likely possible conversion to freshwater in my simple reading.
Think my concern is when first bght from lfs how to stabilise the juv to survive as got conflicting inputs from diff lfs owners as to how to house them at home, so really appreciate if anybody can advise on the way like what we do with difficult fishes like altums to condition them.

Anyway this thread in same forum here suggest that TS is keeping his quite big bb grouper in freshwater and very alive :)
http://arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539119
probably he is highly skilled sifu in this fish:)

mictok 03-08-2018 03:27 PM

There are cases that survive but rate is low compared to blackish or marine and the colouration is better than fw environment.

HuttShun 03-08-2018 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wllm33 (Post 10014999)
hi,
thnks for clear explanation.
seen a few youtube videos of bumble bee grouper sizes quite large in a 3-4 ft tank and owner seems to suggest they are in freshwater environment even though quite big as per aquarium tank size expectations. So likely possible conversion to freshwater in my simple reading.
Think my concern is when first bght from lfs how to stabilise the juv to survive as got conflicting inputs from diff lfs owners as to how to house them at home, so really appreciate if anybody can advise on the way like what we do with difficult fishes like altums to condition them.

Anyway this thread in same forum here suggest that TS is keeping his quite big bb grouper in freshwater and very alive :)
http://arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539119
probably he is highly skilled sifu in this fish:)

Bumblebee groupers grow up to 9ft in length and also up to 400kg, I don't think there's anyone who have kept a bumblebee grouper to even half that length in a full freshwater environment without it dying prematurely.

I know there are hybrid groupers in the market which might be able to better withstand full freshwater environment, but as far as bumblebee groupers are concerned, these giants need to have an increase in salinity as they get bigger, up to the point of full marine salinity.

wllm33 04-08-2018 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuttShun (Post 10015008)
Bumblebee groupers grow up to 9ft in length and also up to 400kg, I don't think there's anyone who have kept a bumblebee grouper to even half that length in a full freshwater environment without it dying prematurely.

I know there are hybrid groupers in the market which might be able to better withstand full freshwater environment, but as far as bumblebee groupers are concerned, these giants need to have an increase in salinity as they get bigger, up to the point of full marine salinity.

assuming that what the lfs is selling hybrids, will be safe to say that they can survive in full fresh water, as shown by this mentioned thread and all those youtube videos showing them very alive but no so big and in fresh water as claimed in the description:)
or we will really need to adjust them back to salt water and use same , hygrometer to measure salinity like marine fishes if we were to want to keep them alive for long time in the aquarium but not hope to grow them too big?
thnks for advice.

HuttShun 04-08-2018 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wllm33 (Post 10015017)
assuming that what the lfs is selling hybrids, will be safe to say that they can survive in full fresh water, as shown by this mentioned thread and all those youtube videos showing them very alive but no so big and in fresh water as claimed in the description:)
or we will really need to adjust them back to salt water and use same , hygrometer to measure salinity like marine fishes if we were to want to keep them alive for long time in the aquarium but not hope to grow them too big?
thnks for advice.

Nah I wouldn't say that they can survive fully in freshwater, although they might be able to better withstand the fluctuations in salinity when they are younger. We don't know what goes on behind the Youtube videos, they might claim the groupers to be in full freshwater, but who knows they have added some marine salt.

Better to standby a bag of marine salt and a hydrometer to monitor the desired salinity for them to thrive, as they are ultimately saltwater fish.

I wouldn't suggest getting a grouper if the intention of keeping the fish is to hope that they don't grow so big. Also, I would expect the hybrid groupers to have a faster growth rate as compared to the bumblebee grouper.

wllm33 04-08-2018 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuttShun (Post 10015021)
Nah I wouldn't say that they can survive fully in freshwater, although they might be able to better withstand the fluctuations in salinity when they are younger. We don't know what goes on behind the Youtube videos, they might claim the groupers to be in full freshwater, but who knows they have added some marine salt.

Better to standby a bag of marine salt and a hydrometer to monitor the desired salinity for them to thrive, as they are ultimately saltwater fish.

I wouldn't suggest getting a grouper if the intention of keeping the fish is to hope that they don't grow so big. Also, I would expect the hybrid groupers to have a faster growth rate as compared to the bumblebee grouper.

so you advise that it should be kept at marine salinity of 1.023-1.04? or? if I decide to try again


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